Talk:Timeline

Cohdopia?
I feel it is significant to put Cohdopia's splitting into the timeline. Since Coachen is still referred to as a "Cohdopian" during Turnabout Reminiscence, it can safely be assumed that the country still was one at that time. However, should I put it under the 2011-2015 mark, or one of the later ones? Tutuboy95 21:43, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

Gyakuten Guidebook birth dates?
Supposedly, birth years are given in the Gyakuten Guidebooks. However, recent edits have been prone to deductive speculation and some inconsistency in presentation, so some asking around will be done before a list of sources is made. capefeather 15:50, September 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * Why would AAI and GK2 have the same inonsistencies as JFA and T&T? Both are only in the year 2019. Actually I find this whole inconsistency thing is rather confusing. Maybe that's why the Guidebook ages seem inconsitent because they're made by the same people who messed up to begin with? Sooo... if I understand it correctly, the inconsistency is because the first three games go over more years (like 20016-2017 for AA, 2017-2018 for JFA, 2018-2019 for T&T)? So in the Investigations games, this would only apply to Gumshoe, Franziska and Edgeworth (because their ages are the same as in T&T), wouldn't it? 178.41.218.103 19:11, September 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * In case you're wondering why the few Inherited Turnabout characters had to be born at a certain date: in example Tsukasa was 16 by December 24 2000, yet she was also still 34 on April 2 2019. So her birthday must be somewhere between April 2 and December 24 1984 (otherwise, if she were born in 1983 after December 24, she'd be 16 in the past, but already 35 in the present; alternatively if she were born before April 2 1985, she'd be 34 in the present but only 15 in the past). Same goes for every other character with two profiles (except obviously Gregory who has no profile and the victim who had no age listed in the present portion). 178.41.218.103 20:27, September 4, 2011 (UTC)

Wait, the guidebooks list ages? I'm not sure how helpful that is since the organizer profiles already have the ages. Do they agree with each other? Also, are you sure GK2 case 3 happened a year before DL-6? (AAI is treated the same as T&T because, well, the profiles effectively treat them the same. If the profile makers still think they're in T&T time, then it's less presumptuous to do the same in the wiki timeline.) capefeather 01:15, September 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, that's because the problem with the case is that it starts in April 2019 and when Shigaraki starts talking about what happened in the past, it just says "18 years ago". And when you then start playing as Gregory, all you see is the date, December 24. The person who created the Inherited Turnabout page on the wikia automatically assumed it was December 24 2001 and ever since then the mistake circulated over the internet. You are never actually told what year it is, but it can easily be deduced and it is actually a vital part of the case due to the statute of limitations. It is always 15 years but when a witness flees the country, the years don't add up. The witness in question (I won't name to avoid spoiling much) was in Zheng Fa from 2001 to 2004. The present portion is in April 2019, so even with the time frozen for that duration, it's 15 years and 4 months. But this was way before the 3-day trial rule was introduced, so the trial took a whole year (so Tenkai's arrest was in 24 December 2000, but he wasn't convicted until 28 December 2001, in the trial which lead to DL-6), thereby making the total 14 years and 4 months (so less than the statute of limitations) and this allowed Edgeworth to do what need be done with the witness. It is actually a focal point in the case, where you first convince the witness he has nothing to lose by testifying since it's way past the statute of limitations, then you point out some things witness doesn't like so he gets defensive and hides behind the statute yet you prove that it was a moot point from the beginning.

A simpler, less spoilerish way - when Shigaraki was helping Gregory in the case, he wasn't a lawyer yet. It is stated he got his badge the next year. He inherited Gregory's law firm after Gregory died. Which he couldn't take over if he weren't a lawyer (like Phoenix in 1-2). And since we know Gregory died in 2001, this happened in the year before - therefore 2000.

Something similar happened when people wrote the articles about the characters who were in the previews with Souta Sarushiro. For some reason, the person who edited it at that time (before the game came out) thought that Sarushiro was Onyanpokon. It referenced the Nintendo Dream article which previewed some of the Imprisoned Turnabout characters, but in actuality, the only Onyankopon reference with Sarushiro was the mask on his shirt. That's about it. He was always just a monkey trainer, even before he joined Tachimi circus I think. Yet this little misinformation managed to infect the whole internet (at least the English portion). If you'd actually put Souta's Japanese name and the Japanese name of Onyankopon into Google, one of the first result is a Japanese imageboard where someone is asking why foreigners think Sarushiro is Onyanpokon and they quote the Ace Attorney wikia... (just saying, by the way) 78.98.11.50 09:35, September 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * Come to think of it, the same thing works for the new AAI characters who were in Turnabout Reminiscence (Faraday, Badd, Coachen and Yew) and had a profile later on. If Badd was 53 by September 2011, yet also only 60 by March 2019 (which is 8 years later), his birthday logically had to be between March and September (same goes for the other 3). I understand that writing March to September is pointless, but it pinpoints their birthdates to a specific year at least. I just copypasted it before from the website (sure, it does have some mistakes, with Devorae in example), but it actually makes sense. Same goes for Ema Skye, she must have been born in October to December 2000. The only real contradictions in the game are the ones described in the policy page with Edgeworth and Wright (and of course, the minor characters who only appear once in JfA and T&T since you have no other date to compare it to). 78.98.11.50 10:07, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

You've basically confirmed my worst fear of having this wiki run without a Japanese-literate to look after the Japan-only articles :( I suspected something fishy about the users editing the GK2 articles by the way they were editing other articles, but without someone who's played the game, there wasn't much that I could do.

It's true that there are only two actual birthday contradictions, but they stem from the wider problem of the relevant people having zero regard for absolute dates and birthdays when giving ages. There's also the issue of AJ having to take place in 2026, which is not a "contradiction" in itself but causes a very awkward situation and makes Phoenix in particular defy all logic in attempts to identify a birthday. Specific birthday ranges could easily be falsified whenever a new game comes out. That is why I find it much safer (especially with a lack of people who care a whole lot about this) to emulate the profile makers' behaviour (as it were) and use the year ranges, because IMO being imprecise is better than being wrong. An alternative could be to include a field for deduced date ranges in the character infobox, but I'm wary about having to maintain these with each game release.

The reason I used two-year ranges for AAI case 4 was due to their use of ages from T&T case 4. Edgeworth is stated as being 20 years old when he very likely should have been 19 at that time. It's possible that they increment the age at some consistent point every year rather than at every birthday, since that's how ages increment in Korea and I'm fairly certain it's how Japan at least used to increment ages as well. I get the point on Ema, though, since the deduced date range would be October 2000 - February 2001, making the possible birth year range 2000-2001, similarly to the other 1-5 people.

capefeather 16:28, September 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * Just to be clear on Tateyuki....


 * According to his page it said he became a defense attorney at the year 2009. And the IS-7 did happen at the year 2000 not 2001... The reason for making this Gregory's last case is because of the fact that Gregory appealed over and over throughout the year... until you know...


 * AmeftoWriter 02:26, September 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * Dunno about that. Seems like just a mistake/oversight to me. It says he "passed the bar" and I suppose you're already a lawyer after that. There's no other way he'd get his Law Offices anyway. Also, whether he became a lawyer before or after his birthday in 2001 is unclear. 178.40.64.134 06:29, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

IS-5 and SS-7
Is there anyone else who noticed that the creators made a huge logical fallacy with the numbers? I mean, everything would line up so perfectly. Each background case would have two unique letters and a number representing the chronological order when it happened. But no, they had to switch the numbers. 95.103.220.81 21:54, September 10, 2011 (UTC)

Dual Destinies time frame
Considering Turnabout Countdown takes place in December, I'm not so sure about pegging the year of that case as 2027 right now. I know that the game is supposed to take place "one year after" Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney, but even that is kind of vague considering the weirdness that's happened before. (Also, one year relative to what?) What do people think? capefeather (talk) 23:28, May 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * I've changed the date to December 18 (2027?) on the Turnabout Countdown page. I think that'll do for now until we get more info. Maybe something similar would work for the timeline itself? - Strabo412 (talk) 16:05, May 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * Dual Destinies is supposedly set in 2027, a year after Apollo Justice's timeline. I checked the UR-1 Incident page and the year is 2019, that's 8 years ago but it's supposed to be 7 years ago. Should I just leave the year as it is for now till we get confirmation (By playing the English version.)? Because it is confusing whenever I open the page. Tiddlypops (talk) 17:55, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

Where's Waldo Armando?
Godot is not mentioned at all in the timeline. Neither is Diego Armando mentioned coming out of his coma, which happens some time in 2017. 108.212.129.166 11:18, January 8, 2014 (UTC)

Trial Dates
I noticed that many of the dates for trials also include the first day of investigation, even though the trial itself didn't technically start until the next day. For example, the dates for Reunion, and Turnabout say that the trial went from June 20-22, but the first day of court was June 21. Not all of the cases follow this; the date for Maya's trial in Turnabout Sisters only includes its one day in court, September 7, and not the first day of investigation, September 6. Should the first day of investigation be included in the dates for trials, or not? 216.49.181.254 21:06, February 18, 2014 (UTC)

Proposal: Split the timeline in two
I've been thinking about this for a few months now, but I wanted to concentrate on the episode articles of DD and GK2, and wait until the editing craze of PLvPW had calmed down. Basically, I believe that the "school year" system that's been used up to now is getting increasingly inadequate with the increasingly glaring discrepancies between the timeline and the ages stated in character profiles. Maybe a future game will even cross over into the next year again, and then things would get really awkward. Combined with the issues with the age field in Template:Character that have been brought up, it makes for a rather confusing state of affairs.

It may make sense to have two timelines and have each event (births in particular) be shown in one or the other (or both) depending on whether they happen before or after a year turnover. For example, the births of Redd White, Max Galactica and Luke Atmey would be in the first timeline; the births of Matt Engarde, Viola Cadaverini and Apollo Justice would be in the second timeline; and the births of Will Powers and Maggey Byrde would be in both timelines. The main concern I see is that we'd potentially split events from the same game and that might get awkward. Maybe it's not even necessary to split the timeline. Nonetheless, I'd like to see what people think and maybe this could later transition into other discussions like what to do with the ages in character pages.

capefeather (talk) 23:51, April 16, 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid I'm a simple soul and I don't 100% follow what you mean. Could you give examples in terms of what it would look like on the page? - Strabo412 (talk) 17:29, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

The original idea I had was to split the timeline into two different articles. Some events can be compared directly to the DL-6 Incident without any problems. Others cross over into a different year and can't be compared directly to the DL-6 Incident without messing up birth dates / ages. I hope you see what I mean if you consider the births of the characters I mentioned above. capefeather (talk) 01:05, May 9, 2014 (UTC)


 * I think I understand? What were you thinking exactly in terms of splitting the article into two (article names and so on)? - Strabo412 (talk) 16:12, May 9, 2014 (UTC)

I was considering having one timeline that only contains events from the original trilogy, and another timeline that contains events from every game except the first. I was considering this because I wasn't sure if the games really cared about anchoring to a specific event (namely the DL-6 Incident) anymore. However, it occurred to me today that The Inherited Turnabout shows that the writers are still at least paying attention to the relative timing of events other than dates of birth. It also occurred to me that every canon game "spills over", including the first game as of the inclusion of Rise from the Ashes.

Now I'm thinking of something less violent and less complicated than splitting the timeline. Namely, base every character's stated year of birth on the post-2004 games. Phoenix Wright is born in 1993, Ema Skye is born in 2001, Pearl Fey is born in 2010, Shi-Long Lang is born in 1992, etc. in line with the Apollo Justice / Dual Destinies character profiles. Even the characters in the original first game should probably get the same treatment, in line with the stance that Rise from the Ashes is just as much a part of the first game as the other cases, even though it didn't exist in the original version. We could even make an "old" timeline solely concerning the events and characters of the original GBA trilogy, from the perspective of the original GBA trilogy (so Phoenix Wright is born in 1992).

This seems like a very clean solution to me. It would dispel the confusion in the timeline we've experienced thus far by treating the trilogy as spilling over into a previous year, rather than spilling over into a subsequent year. Let's just hope that if another game pulls the year-crossover shenanigans, it doesn't complicate matters even further.

capefeather (talk) 03:15, May 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * That sounds pretty reasonable to me. - Strabo412 (talk) 09:44, May 10, 2014 (UTC)

Apollo Justice in 2025?
I seem to get the idea that the authors meant for Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney to happen in the year 2025 and they apparently intend to keep the profiles consistent with it in the future releases, as we can conclude from Phoenix being 34 in "2027" (aging 10 years, while "11" years have passed).

"The developers of the Ace Attorney games, in particular the people in charge of putting down the ages of characters in court records, have not paid much attention to any absolute timeline." - this line is incredibly presumptuous to me. The fact that the ages don't change when a year passes in a single game, while true, I don't think can be a reason to disregard information contained there.

Given the fact that Turnabout Succession occurs in October, had it happened in 2025, 6 and a half years would have passed since Phoenix's disbarment, which then could be easily rounded up to 7. That way, all the contradictions in characters' ages would also be cleared up.

What I'd suggest is moving everything that happened in Apollo Justice and Dual Destinies a year earlier, which would clear up the inconsistency between the in-game profiles. - Sligneris (talk) 17:32, June 28, 2014 (UTC)

The game talks about "seven years ago" throughout, including in the very first case, where they seemed very particular in making Phoenix's disbarment seven years ago the same month. capefeather (talk) 02:19, June 29, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, but then it spirals into "canon information vs. canon information", like I said, moving the whole thing into 2025 and asuming that AJ is actually the start of the seventh year of Phoenix's disbarment will lead to a single semi-contradiction in this one game, while keeping it like it is, will lead to a lot of contradictions in ages in character profiles in every single game from AJ on... - Sligneris (talk) 09:52, June 29, 2014 (UTC)


 * While I do concede that it's hard to believe that 9 people's birthdays happen to be between October 9th-April 19th, there are inconistancy's in believing that Apollo Justice took place in 2025. Mainly some other people's profiles. Phoenix is 26 at the end of Trials and Tribulations (2019) and is 33 at the beginning of Apollo Justice (2026). Hardly inconsitant. Now that might be into doubt with the whole oh he's 24 in Ace Attorney (2016), I [resent Turnabout Samurai. This is the case in which we first hear Phoenix's age. It's 24. The important thing here is not so much the age but the date. Turnabout Samurai takes place between October 16th-20th. A little improbable but hardly impossible. Another example would be in The Stolen Turnabout when again Phoenix's age is mentioned. he's 26 but again it's not October 9th it's October 11th. Highly doubtful but again not impossible. (Who know's maybe they just forgot his birthday.)


 * Ok maybe Phoenix is not the best example but I bring you two other people who can disclaim it within Apollo Justice. They are Trucy and Klavier. The ages match up within their profiles for AJ era and 7 years in the past. Even if we assume they just had their birthdays immeaditly afterwards and that Apollo Justice Era takes palce in 2025 that would mean 7 birthdays inbetween! That's very inconsistant! I believe the better explanatin is just simply that Dual Destinies people messed up on some ages.Franzyfan1998 (talk) 19:46, June 29, 2014 (UTC)


 * You are wrong about T&T. That game took place in the latter half of 2018 and then, only one case occurred in Feb. 2019, which means he had his birthday before The Stolen Turnabout. He'd turn 27 that year, which contradicts the game that took place fully in "2026" - in which he aged 6 years in "7" years.


 * Assumimg Dual Destinies takes place in 2027 completely ruins the continuity of ages of characters such as Phoenix Wright, Miles Edgeworth or Pearl Fey. I am convinced Capcom will keep the age progress as it is, and I don't think contradictions like characters becoming one year younger at one point in time before Apollo Justice should be present on this wiki.


 * The solution I propose is just assuming the "seven years ago" refers to the "six and a half years" from the Mason System in Turnabout Succession. The "seven years" in Turnabout Trump could be just a build-up for this final case.


 * It' a somewhat loose interpretation that clears up critical contradictions in the profiles in the series that happened already and will continue to happen in future releases, unless we actually make that change in the timeline. I really prefer loose interpretations of a single game to critical contradictions in the whole series.


 * We also shouldn't refer strictly to the characters who made their debut in AJ, basically because... they made their debut in AJ. Their birthdates can be easily moved along with the timeline. I'll soon make a spare article on Trucy to show what I mean.


 * There's also another bonus: that change would allow us to narrow down the ages of the characters, like I did with Phoenix. I honestly think it's worth it. - Sligneris (talk) 20:59, June 29, 2014 (UTC)


 * Ok? Let's try to be reasonable.


 * First off, I knew the Stolen Turnabout took place in 2018 (Side note- while the murder of Glen Elg took place in December of 2018, Recipe for Turnabout took place in Janurary 2019). Also that still doesn't change Phoenix's age in that case unless he screwed up. That means practiacally 8 years has passed since the Stolen Turnabout and Turnabout Succession. If his birthday happened immeaditly afterwards (Turnabout Succession) the problem is fixed.


 * Second: Edgeworth was 26 in AAI (1&2) and T&T. Dual Destinies he is 34. Not the best example. I concede with Pearl, but that just pooves it wasn't Apollo Justice that made the error it was Dual Destinies.


 * Third: If we don't address the people who made their debut in Apollo Justice then who counts. I thought this game was the issue. That aside, if you want more proof, look no further than Ema Skye. Ema is 18 in AAI(1&2) seven years later in AJ she's 25. Makes sense. Also let's be real if what I think you are saying is right (though I'm not 100% sure, hard to tell tone) What you are saying is that Klavier and Trucy's birthday happened inbetween Turnabout Trump and Turnabout Corner. That does not make sense mister. If that were the case Klavier would be 16 in Phoenix's last case and Trucy would be 7! Explain that. (Btw please don't drag this into two talk pages, we already diescussing it on this page, let's continue). Franzyfan1998 (talk) 22:16, June 29, 2014 (UTC)


 * The problem is, the he couldn't have had his birthday after Turnabout Succession, because T&T clearly establishes that he had to have his birthday before The Stolen Turnabout, which occured in October, September in the Japanese version, iirc.


 * In AA1 (2016) Edgeworth was 24, and remained so to the Rise from the Ashes, which took place in February meaning he had his birthday before Turnabout Sisters, September. That also proves he was born in 1992, just like Phoenix. Being 24 in 2016, how old does he turn in 2019? Here's a hint - it's definitely not 26. How old should he be in December 2027? My calculations say 35, not 34.


 * There is literally no way for both Phoenix or Edgeworth to be 34 at the end of Turnabout for Tomorrow, December "2027". It's only possible for December 2026.


 * That's why you shouldn't try to use try to use AAI ages, because these are mostly extensions of the 2018 year, meaning the recurring original trilogy characters from it didn't have their birthdays yet - just that.


 * I'm not saying Trucy's or Klavier's birthdays happened between these 2 cases, I have yet to do the exact calculations. And even if so, that's way more reliable information than Phoenix becoming year younger during his time disbarred. - Sligneris (talk) 23:07, June 29, 2014 (UTC)


 * 1 I strictly said it was doubtful for Phoenix's birthday to be between October 9th and October 11th (October 10th). I never said It was impossible. (Also English version will change things, this is not new)


 * 2.  It is possible for Edgeworth to be born in 1992 and still be 26 in 2019 and 34 in 2027. It's called having your birthday. For example Jane Doe is born in 1997 and her birthday is in July. So she can be 16 right now but 17 in a few weeks. I'll concede that they totally messed up in Phoenix's and Edgeworth's age in December but for the rest of the year it's not impossible.


 * 3. Then which ages should we focus on. If Ema in 2018 doesn't count then how about Trilogy Ema. As far as we know (though i think it's being debated still) she's 16 in early 2017. And that still matches up with with her age in 2026.


 * 4. Then what are you saying? They went went through a time warp. Your theory has some faults. Ema, Klavier, and Trucy prove that.


 * 5. I just thought of this but to your earlier arguement of "The solution I propose is just assuming the "seven years ago" refers to the 'six and a half years' from the Mason System in Turnabout Succession. The "seven years" in Turnabout Trump could be just a build-up for this final case." It doesn't hold a lot of water. Who in the world would say 7 years ago I lost my badge when it happened 6 years prior? That makes no sense. Even if you say it's a lead up, I pose why would you do that? It's like saying I'm 7 but I was born exactly 6 years ago but I'm rounding up because in half a year I'll be 6 1/2, it doesn't work like that! Why go through that trouble instead of just saying 6 years! Also I think Kristoph, Klavier, Apollo, or anyone with half a brain would point out it was 6 years and not 7! Franzyfan1998 (talk) 02:09, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

1. I'm pretty certain The Monstrous Turnabout made me narrow down the birthday to "before April", I'll share exact notes, when I'm back on my PC.

By the way, why are you trying to argue there aren't contradictions, when they clearly are there. The point of this is thread is not "are there contradictions or not?", because that much was astablished before we started talking about it... The point of this is thread is "Do we make a change in the timeline to fix these contradictions?" and I'm willing to say "Yes."

2. No, it is not possible for a person whose birth date is before September 1992 to be 34 in December 2027? Because someone born before September 1992 would be 35 since before September 2027? If you can't do that much math, why won't you leave it in the hands of someone who can?

3. I'm willing to focus on the ages of main characters who appear more often in the series, because these are the ones most affected by these contradictions.

4. They either went through a timewarp, or Mason System simply got the ages wrong. Well, that is a "last stand" solution, to be applied only if I won't be able to make sense of their ages. I most likely will, but just in case~

When if it does have some faults, it is way less disastrous than all of the original trilogy characters becoming a year younger after Apollo Justice.

I really prefer loose explanation of one single aspect to critical contradictions between the games in the series. That's exactly the point of this idea. Change from something that's impossible to something that's slightly unbelievable.

5. They don't have a half of a brain. This can be simply explained by writers making a mistake. It truly wouldn't be the first case of characters talking nonsense and that is the only way we can explain those contradictions.

Also, just because people don't usually round ages up, are you saying it's impossible? Weird, I'm certain I'm doing this myself sometimes and no one seems to object.

And finally, please just stop discussing for the sake of it, because I'm really get the idea you're doing just that. If you have a point, fine, bring it... Just check its validity first. Along with me being unable to access my computer for several days, you're not helping... - Sligneris (talk) 06:18, June 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * Ok, I'm going to say this because it needs saying. I am noy arguing for arguements sake. I am discussing because what your saying does not hold as much water as you might think.


 * 1. I am just saying Phoenix's birthday might be on October 10th prior to Dual Destnies. But that imformation in mind I guess it's in March or something.


 * 1B. I never said there weren't any contradictions. I conceded many times that they're were faults. However, that does no automatically prove that your theoryis correct. Like I said Ema, Trucy and Klavier disprove that.


 * 2. Thank you for belittling my math skills, I'll be sure to tell my previous math teachers what you kindly said. (BTW-I Got As and Bs all throughout the year). I never said any of those things. In fact I'll quoate exactly what I said. "I'll concede that they totally messed up in Phoenix's and Edgeworth's age in December but for the rest of the year it's not impossible." I wasn't defending the cases in Deember, I was simply defending the cases prior to December. LISTEN!


 * 3/4. You way of thinking is not very, um what the word, fair. I totally find your motives fair. However, creating new contradictions in favor of ridding the wiki of the old ones doesn't solve anything! From what I gather, you are trying to fix the ages of, Pearl Fey, Miles Edgeworth, and Phoenix Wright, but wait. This reates time discepincies between Trucy, Klavier, Ema, Valant, and even Zak. Until you find a coherient way of proving a way for them to all have magically grown a year older I will find your theory BUSTED!


 * 5. I think it was covered by the local news. I'll give you the quote if you want


 * Apollo: It was all over the news, I remember that.


 * I highly doubt they got the date wrong.


 * 5B. WHAT!? They don't have half a brain? Could you be anymore insulting!? And really Klavier who graduated law school at 17, doesn't know his counting numbers?! EVEN YUMIHIKO KNOWS HIS 123s! Really no one in the courtroom thought "Hey it wasn't 7 years, it was 6" What you're saying makes absolutley no sense! You're saying that they rounded up to seven, on the 6th anniversary of the event! Wasn't there a law that said "If you're missing for 7 years, you're dead!" Why on earth would the police close off a search one year before the dealine. They may be dumb but when they search for someone they really search for someone. Won't stop until the person is found or he's considered dead!


 * And to that extent, Zak's property laws. If you remember correctly Valant had to wait 7 years until Zak was officially dead in order to preform some magic tricks. That was a plot point wasn't it! Again very very doubtful that the police would let him have the rights six months before they figured "eh he's probably dead!" That's not right.


 * Furthermore, roudning up prior to 6.5 makes no sense, even in this game. I bring you proof in a series of events.


 * A. In Investigations 1, before you bring it up, they do round up to seven when it was 6 1/2 years. I concede that, however, it works for Investigations a lot better than in Apollo Justice. Mainly beacuse the whole game except for the flashback case, takes place in a week. So it would make sense to round to 7 years throughout the entire game. Rather than saying 7 years on the 6th anniversary. And also-


 * B. Investigations 2, Red Chef dude (Yutaka Kazami) would have gotten away with the murder because the crime took place 18 years and 4 months ago. Even with the rule in which the investiagtion could be extended 3 extra years past the 15 year limit, he still had a four month saftey net. They specifically say 18 instead of rounding to 19. Gee I wonder, maybe it was because it took place 18 years prior.


 * C. And the most convincing, DL6! PWAA It was said time and time again it takes place 15 years prior to the game! That's not the part though. The part is in Bridge to the Turnabout and Investigations (both in 2019), they say DL6 happened 17 years ago. When it took place 17 and 2-4 months before (respectivly). They didn't round up to 18 despite the year!


 * It's almost like they don't round up unless it's like X.5. Oh wait that's how math works. So maybe you should go back to your math class, and not me. You failed counting and rounding. (Sorry for bashing but you did throw the first stone on that matter. Again I apologise)


 * Bottom line I'm making. Dual Destinies made the error in the ages. And they did because they have a phobia of birthdays. They made the mistake now we have to live with it. Unless you can provide an explanation disproving the facts the games have made as well as keep your own in check your theory is BUSTED!


 * BTW- Good luck convincing resturaunts, bars and the cops you're 21 when your ID says your 20.Franzyfan1998 (talk) 16:35, June 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * Okay, let me explain. I do have reasons to believe that writers had this image in mind:


 * 2016 - Nick is 24 - AA1
 * 2017 - Nick is 25 - AA2
 * 2018 - Nick is 26 - AA3, AAI, AAI2
 * 2025 - Nick is 33 after seven years disbarred. - AA4
 * 2026 - Nick is 34 - AA5


 * Quite simple, but we are trying to read more between the lines here, which is what resulted in having this as it is in the first place.


 * Still, this little piece of text is why I'm certain that unless we do that change, the blatant contradictions will continue and Nick will be 35 in the next installment, which will take place 36 years after his birth and so on, and so on... That's precisely what I'm trying to avoid.


 * The points you make, are something I'm willing to suspend my disbelief on - because what do you think is more believable - people rounding the ages up, or Phoenix, Edgeworth and Pearl becoming a year younger over a decade? Because I'm going to say it's the former. I'm not even really sure if Valant was already performing those exact tricks either - he could have very well been just expecting to be able later in that year.


 * I don't see a single reason to disregard ages in Dual Destinies. I'm also certain the contradictions aren't Dual Destinies old and wrre there since the timeskip.


 * Unlike you, I am trying to avoid the "they messed up ages, it doesn't make sense" explanation and I am trying to analyze the canon information, including profiles and interpret it in a way that does make sense.


 * I also don't see how Trucy, Ema or Klavier disprove anything. If we are to make that change, all that is left to conclude is that they had their birthdays after the past section of Turnabout Succession and before Turnabout Corner (e. g. Trucy, Klavier), Turnabout Trump (e. g. Zak) or Turnabout Serenade (e. g. Valant). Just that. No new contradictions are created, like you seem to attest.


 * I also don't see how the last part supports anything. I suggest rounding up the gap between the trilogy and AJ, not all the gaps that ever happened.


 * By the way, repeatedly saying "busted" makes it seem even more than you are just arguing for the fun of it, while I'm trying to make some progress here. - Sligneris (talk) 17:32, June 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * Ok this bears repeating as you are obviously not reading/listening to what I have to say. I am not repeat NOT arguing for the fun of it! I am discussing because your theory has faults. It does not explain everything. It may solve some but not all. Ok were now that we established that twice now, let's dive into the problems once more in your explanation.


 * 1. Who in the world rounds up ages?! (Besides you). Maybe one but 5! I don't think so! And since they never do that at any other point in this series (agewise) your arguement is kind of weak.


 * 1B. Once again I have proven the possibilty of Phoenix being 34 in 2027, They messed up deal with it! And to that effect, of course Trucy, Ema, and Klavier put doubt on your theory.
 * Ok let's assume Trucy's birthday and Klavier's brithday is right before Turnabout Corner. Oh wait, that takes place in June. In April 7 years ago they were 8 and 17 respectivly. 7 birthdays inbetween and 6 years of age. Something tells me that's not right. And Ema's birthday has to be at the end of the calendar year. It just makes no sense otherwise. Also two other character's you pushed to the side. First off Zak, it was almost exactly 7 years between his disapearence and death. 40 in 2019 47 in 2026. How do you disprove that one genius!? Answer you give new contradictions! (For someone who loves pofiles you seem to ignore them)


 * 2. Concerning Valant and the whole "Oh he wasn't really going to do those exact tricks!" I call that one very very wrong. If he wasn't preforming the exact act or a varient of, why did he get so upset in Trucy having the rights.


 * 3. You have yet to disprove my argement fully. If not at all. You are simply pushing it under the rug. Anyway, you have yet to disprove the whole slew of Zak being missing for 7 years and thus being declared dead. And the last arguements of Ace Attorney time and Time again not rounding up when it was less that X.5.


 * And to close a quote that seems to fit you more than me at the moment,
 * "Luke Atmey"

- When you were in grade school, you recieved the same report card every year! "Careless, with tendency to jump to conclusions" ... Am I wrong?


 * Please come back when you can provide a full explanation that proves your point while explaining all of the facts of the game. Fully! (No pushing it under the rug!) Franzyfan1998 (talk) 18:28, June 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * Well, so very sorry that I can't give full-fledged arguments from a mobile.


 * That, and together with soundtrack translation fixes, portraits, and capitalizations getting really annoyed I can't have a free hand in improving the content of this wiki.


 * There is no way someone with birth date before September 1992 can be 34 after September 2027 and you really should know that much. One is certsin, your skull isn't as tgin as Zak's.


 * Pushing under the rug? Isnt't that you? "Dual Destinies ages don't make sense so I'll disregard them" - I believe you said something similar to this a while ago. You also completely ignored the little "table" I made which displayed the method in which developers place ages in the games. I can't believe someone like you kept calling ne hypocrite.


 * sigh* With this kinda attitude of everyone around I think I'll eventually give up on trying to implement any kind of consistency and logic around here. It gets too stressful over time. - Sligneris (talk) 18:46, June 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * Ladies, ladies, you're BOTH very pretty, and I'd happily marry either one of you, can I please go home now?


 * But, seriously guys, do you two get a kick out of constantly arguing with and insulting each other? Because that's all you two have been doing recently and, frankly, it's getting annoying. CrashBash (talk) 18:51, June 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * ...I'm a guy.


 * Also, I would gladly focus on determining whether or not we should actually do that change. The first point is obviously the ages. Since the whole date reckoning originated in the trilogy, we should assume that the ages of characters in the trilogy should be consistent throughout the series.


 * That is why I was trying so hard on using two most important characters in the series, Edgeworth and Phoenix, as a reference. If these can't get consistent throughout the whole series, can we trust amy timeline information here?


 * Once I access my computer, I'll provide my calculations in regards to Edgeworth's and Phoenix's birth dates, and I can assure you - both of them will get broken with AJ in 2026 and DD in 2027. That is the point I'm trying to make. - Sligneris (talk) 19:08, June 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * ....you've clearly not heard of that saying before, have you? The "I'm a guy" comment says as such. CrashBash (talk) 19:13, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

I think that decisions like this should be based on what has actually occurred, rather than trying to guess writer/developer intent beyond what has occurred. I agree that the writers probably have some sort of system for determining which "year" games take place, and thus how old people are in each game. However, it's apparent that they don't have some kind of meticulous system of keeping track of exact dates and such. They've had plenty of opportunities to set birthdates straight. Other franchises have had no problem with establishing trivial biological traits, including birthdays and blood types. In contrast, the Ace Attorney franchise doesn't bother to put in such details, and apparently can't even get eye colour straight sometimes.

If anything, I suspect that this lack of (consistent) biological information is intentional. A lot of aspects of the story are intentionally left vague, like romantic pairing possibilities. Regardless of all that, I don't particularly blame them for not trying to set everything straight. So I'm still not really convinced that it's worth trying to derive a semi-consistent system for ourselves, when another game (or even another surprise deduction from known information) could easily create yet more difficulties. Are we going to keep having arguments like this every time that happens, arguments about which contradictions are the least important? I don't see the point in that.

In the end, court record profiles are trivia in all cases save for maybe JFA and T&T. People don't remember or really care about details like age. They remember and care more about phrases like SEVEN YEARS AGO that these games sometimes bludgeon us with repeatedly. I'd prefer a system that can reasonably last and that's what I was going for with my above proposal.

capefeather (talk) 19:55, June 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * Ok I have several points to several people so bear with me


 * Sligneris: A) Don't drag previous arguements into this just to prove a point. If you're guilty of something then that's that. Also it was insulting. Also relax. Take a deep breath. Now calmly listen/read.


 * I think it's great you want some consistancy in the ages, however, there are going to be some inconsitancies no matter what.. so I think you should let it go (no pun), and let us stick to what are games say. They made a mistake. It is said and done. There is not much we can do.


 * I ask you unless you can fully explain everything I asked you too, then drop the matter. I provided sufficient proof that it was 7 and not 6. You on the other hand are focusing on the nittygritty and ignoring it. Bottom line: more prrof towards a 7 year difference than a 6 year difference. If you can disprove the proof then go for it. But like Franziska von Karma only perfection will sufice. And if you have a problem with your mobile, then wait until you have your computer at hand. Ok, can you do that? Me, I'm sticking to what the games say. It just seems so much simpler.


 * Everyone else: Again, I am sorry for hhaving you listen/read anotherspat between us, but this time i think what he said was incorrect. There was nothing flat out wrong, there were just to many holes to hold water. I purely wanted to make sure we didn't make a mistake. If I'm annoying I apologise but I had to stick up for what the games said. Franzyfan1998 (talk) 20:28, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

Timeline without months
Alright, I decided to drop the timeline change discussion for the moment and start something else that might be, I admit, kind of a build-up for my argument. I decided to reassume things from the very beginning.

First of all, the first game takes place 15 years after DL-6 Incident, which took place in 2001 in English localization. That means the first game took place in 2016

PW:AA - 2016

Then, let's assume the rest of the games in the trilogy take place year after year.

PW:AA - 2016 PW:JFA - 2017 PW:T&T - 2018

Since, if I recall correctly the ages don't change between AAI and T&T let's put it under the same year. Also, since Gumshoe's age is no different from the T&T in Turnabout Succession, it will also be put under the same way.

PW:AA - 2016 PW:JFA - 2017 PW:T&T - 2018 ME:AAI - 2018 ME:GK2 - 2018 T. Succession - 2018

AJ takes place seven years after T&T and DD year after AJ, which then would be...

PW:AA - 2016 PW:JFA - 2017 PW:T&T - 2018 ME:AAI - 2018 ME:GK2 - 2018 T. Succession - 2018 AJ:AA - 2025 PW:DD - 2026

It seems like a lame build-up for my argument, doesn't it? Well, there's yet another point to this, you'll see.

Let's add flashback cases. DL-6 is known already. T. Memories is 5 years before T&T happened. T. Beginnigs, 6 years. IS-7, 18 years, etc. I'll keep these relative to the games they appeared in.

IS-7  - 2000 DL-6  - 2001 SS-5  - 2006 KG-8  - 2008 T. Reminiscence - 2011 T. Beginnings  - 2012 T. Memories    - 2013 SL-9  - 2014 PW:AA - 2016 PW:JFA - 2017 PW:T&T - 2018 ME:AAI - 2018 ME:GK2 - 2018 T. Succession  - 2018 UR-1  - 2019 AJ:AA - 2025 PW:DD - 2026

Obviously, this whole reasoning is faulty, because it '''excludes any changes about the year in a game, thus disregards months completely. ''' However... If you'll take a quick glance and compare this table to the in-game profiles and all in-game flashback cases, you'll see that all information about the ages, whether from PW or AJ, and all the time gaps or even things like the accurate length of Edgeworth's career is fully consistent!

Ironically, it also disproves the edit I made before to Turnabout Beginnings - it did actually take place in 2012, not 2013 like I changed it to.

This behavior of the years, age gaps and characters ages is what leads me to believe that what you see above might be a reference to how the profiles are put into the Court Record by Capcom.

Just some food for thought. - Sligneris (talk) 20:07, June 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * Ok, I'm glad you admit what you said is faulty. And it is. But this makes even less sense. I'm sorry, i don't mean to insulte you but why?


 * JFA and T&T are proven to have two years mentioned in the actual game! So why are you going up against the games you wanted to keep in check!?


 * Please stop! This is getting out of hand! Please let's keep our timeline the way it is!Franzyfan1998 (talk) 20:28, June 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * It is not meant as a replacement for the current timeline. More of a reference for us to have the information narrowed down as close to the canon to avoid future inconsistencies. You cannot deny that if you temporarily forget about the months, this table is fully consistent.


 * What I wish to suggest is using this chart to determine birth years. The ages were always consistent with this template in the court record and the ages are our only way of determining the birth years, so why not?


 * I also would like to get the actual timeline as close to thials as reasonably possible. That is, like I said, changing T. Beginnings back to 2012, as well as moving AJ:AA and PW:DD to 2025 and 2026 respectively.


 * The contradictions about the ages of AJ characters will be solved by the suggested birth year policy right in the paragraph above and we will drop the idea of establishing birth days and months.


 * So... capefeather, do you approve? - Sligneris (talk) 20:50, June 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * I think you're forgetting about othe users again. Before Cape does provide his opinion, allow me to provide my own opinion, if you don't want to read it then let others.


 * Question: When did T. Beginnings have a switch in dates?


 * Second: I can't forget about the months. The months are our most constant thing in this unviverse don't take that away from us!


 * Third: Please stop. You're scaring me! Franzyfan1998 (talk) 21:12, June 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * No. Read my whole argument again and don't speak up, until you actually understand it. If you need help understanding it, I can offer it on my talk page. That's all. - Sligneris (talk) 21:22, June 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * Ladies, you're BOTH pretty, I'd happily marry both of...oh, forget it, I've already done that joke. Guys, if you're just going to behave this way all the time then please take it OUTSIDE the wikia? Please? CrashBash (talk) 21:33, June 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * Sligneris, you listen and you listen now. What you are saying makes no sense what-so-ever! You are going against the games themselves! They have months mentioned and JFA and T&T both have a Happy New Year! No matter what you say, you will never change that! Drop this whole issue! Every explanation you give makes no sense! So stop!


 * So I'm going to repeat myself one last time: Either provide a sane and full explanation (That explains everything above this whatever) or DROP IT!


 * What part of "stop arguing!" are you incapable of understanding? CrashBash (talk) 22:43, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * Do you really want to know my thoughts? Well, I'll tell you. I refuse to accept EITHER of your arguments whilst you're BOTH behaving like five year old children. Either grow up or shut up! CrashBash (talk) 22:43, June 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * My, my, what a horrible misunderstanding. I never said "Remove the months completely". No, what I said was:


 * "Establish character birth dates from the reference Capcom seems to be using while listing ages in profiles"
 * "Try to get the timeline as reasonably close to the one consistent year reference as possible"


 * ...which would be changimg T. Beginnings back to 2012, Apollo Justice to 2025 and Dual Destinies to 2026. Since we no longer establish ages by months, but instead use chronological reference, there should be any fatal contradictions in character birth dates for neither PW, nor AJ characters.


 * JFA, T&T (aside from flashback cases), AAI, GK2 and Turnabout Succession dates were to remain unchanged


 * I already said this much in the second message of that thread, really. That is why I asked you to comprehend what exactly is my argument before you actually speak. Not like you listened... Another section littered with spam... *sigh* - Sligneris (talk) 23:19, June 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * Capefeather, I'd still like to hear a final word on the matter ^^; - Sligneris (talk) 23:19, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

If I understand this correctly, you're proposing to have this applied only to character ages and flashback case dates, right? If that's the case, this is similar to what I was going for, except with all the years advanced by one. My rationale for this is that only the original trilogy crosses years, but the other games are all but certainly timed relative to the "latter year". capefeather (talk) 23:50, June 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * Still this explanation makes no sense. I'm sorry but it doesn't. I'll calmly explain
 * A) Again JFA and T&T have Happy New Years. This unfortunately means that this can't be. Each game covers two years. 10 months in JFA, 5 in T&T but both invlove December and Janurary. We just can't change it. I'm sorry but we can't change the years of which each case happened. It's as simple as that.
 * B) You want to determine birthdays yes? Well..... most of the main cast from JFA has to have the birthdays between March and June. You know Maya, Pearl, Franziska, and Gumshoe. I think we have it narrowed down for the most part. Inconsistencies we just have live with.
 * C) We can't determine years by age. We determine age by years.
 * I'm sorry, I still think it's great what you want to do, but it's just impossible to have a way without either contradicting other facts or changing a lot of other facts. Franzyfan1998 (talk) 23:55, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

Well, that's the thing. I don't see the value in interpreting profile ages as absolute ages-at-the-time. Even with the double-year system that's been used thus far, there's no attempt to discuss whether or not someone's birthday has passed. Shifting all the double-year entries to the latter year is just a small adjustment of that. capefeather (talk) 00:10, July 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * Haaangh, so we won't be changing AJ to 2025 and DD to 2026..? I really hoped I could finally go on without cringing at every single inconsistency in main original trilogy chararecters' ages in every single game from AJ on...


 * I mean, these two are the years we're going to use for age reference, so now even the AJ characters will be inconsistent with it... Like I said, the only thing that can solve these contradictions, like a person born in 1992 being 34 in "2027" is moving that part of the timeline.


 * Huh, but I guess we have the age reference now, at least. That is one step ahead. - Sligneris (talk) 00:21, July 1, 2014 (UTC)


 * What I'd like to point out is that age reference for AJ is 2025. That is the only way it can stay consistent with ages of both new and recurring characters.


 * The thing is, if we do use that reference and keep saying AJ happened in 2026, the birth years of all the characters would become inconsistent.


 * That is why I ask you change AJ to 2025. Characters say "7 years ago", because in Capcom's mind, they refer to the year of Trials and Tribulations, 2018...


 * While we will keep changing years after a year passes (e. g. Turnabout Succession in 2019), all the time gaps (e g. the "seven years ago" phrase) and ages are created with exactly the same method I used - which groups T&T, AAI and T. Succession under 2018. - I mean, that's the only assumption that seems to make everything consistent.


 * When you look at that it becomes quite obvious that months are the last thing put into the game - why should they be of top priority in that case? Shouldn't year consistency be more important?


 * While we will keep changing years after a year passes, this table from the first mess


 * Really, trust me. That's the only way to do it that makes sense. - Sligneris (talk) 10:53, July 1, 2014 (UTC)


 * Ah...! It starts to get annoying.
 * Why does no else see it? Why does no one else seem to really understand what I wrote at the beginning of this section?


 * I even wrote the most important points in bold... Shouldn't the wiki aim for the information consistency..? Why do I even have to clean up this mess...?


 * To me, it is exactly as logical as 2+2=4 - it just is true... But supporting this solution with arguements... Am I just bad at forming them...?


 * Really, if I only had more of a free hand at editing this wiki... - Sligneris (talk) 12:38, July 1, 2014 (UTC)


 * I can't believe you! I thought we were done with this discussion! You can't change the facts of the game. T&T has the Stolen Turnabout take place in 2018. The murder of Glen Elg takes place in December 2018, Recipe for Turnabout takes place in 2019 as does everything that follows it! Stop changing the facts! In lamens terms this solution is flat out wrong! I'm sorry but those are the facts! Franzyfan1998 (talk) 14:50, July 1, 2014 (UTC)


 * Recipe for Turnabout, Bridge to the Turnabout, Ace Attorney Investigations games being grouped under the year 2018, despite taking place in 2019 is also a fact evidenced by Gumshoe's age remaining unchanged since the start of Trials and Tribulations to the point of Turnabout Succession.


 * I also got admin's permission to change the birth years, if I understand capefeather's opinion correctly.


 * But, fine enough. This is too grand a change to be made from a mobile. Once I access my computer, I will try to write a new timeline from scratch, making deductions directly from what we have in game, complete with reasonings. It will be posted in my sandbox and then discussed.


 * On the other hand, I still kinda lament not having admin priviliges... I wouldn't have to discuss things as obvious as keeping the timeline consistent within itself... As well as I could prevent stubborn, meantally-challenged kids from interfering with every improvement I try to make.


 * But, I guess I have to deal with that. Is the solution I proposed good enough? The one with showing in my sandbox exactly what the timeline would look like, had my suggestion been accepted? - Sligneris (talk) 15:45, July 1, 2014 (UTC)


 * OK, I can't speak for Capefeather because I'm not Capefeather, but I don't think he gave you full on permission. He said, i think, that they take place over two calanedar years. And he said "Shifting all the double-year entries to the latter year is just a small adjustment of that" I don't know about you but does that sound like pushing everyone's age up a year or down a year. Either way, we should leave things as they are.


 * Also about Gumshoe, we discussed this his birthday, as of JFA takes place between March and June, now it's between April and June. Do we have to repeat the point of people can be two ages in the course of one calendar year!


 * You are doing extra work that is A) no one asked for. B) No one gave outright permission. C) Makes little to no sense!


 * Also I demand an apology on calling me mentally challenged! That's too far! Franzyfan1998 (talk) 16:03, July 1, 2014 (UTC)

A change in timeline policy?
(See the first post in section above for my entire point/suggestion)

I established a reference according to which the ages, flashback and time gaps are always consistently assigned too. Months are implemented after all those.

Since ages and time gaps are established using this reference, we should adjust the timeline to fit this reference as well as possible.

Ages never change in a single game, which means it's not dependant on the months - meaning, there's no way to efficiently establish birth dates. We can only establish birth years in accordance to said reference, which is what capefeather approved of.

The reference is never inconsistent with profiles, time gaps nor flashbacks. That's why it should be used. The only thing that complicates things is what is added last: months. This can be solved easily.

The fact that my suggestion provides consistency with time gaps, profiles and tge often-contradictory ages proves it is correct.

Recipe for Turnabout, Bridge to the Turnabout Ace Attorney Investigations" games occured in 2019 however script and profiles refer to them as a part of the main year of T&T, which is 2018. This is evident by ages of recurring characters (Edgeworth, Franziska, Gumshoe, and lots and lots of cameos).

Therefore, while the timeline will list these as occuring in 2019, for the sake of consistency when referred to from other points in time, they will be grouped under the year 2018, which will change only our treatment of their time relativity.

That way, we would go on without fatal contradictions.Sligneris (talk)


 * Hey, Sligneris. I told you this before and it still hasn't gotten through to you, so I'll say it again. Stop. Being. Such. A. Dick. CrashBash (talk) 17:17, July 1, 2014 (UTC)