Editing Forum:Character Articles

{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}

Similarly to the [[Forum:Character Profiles|Character Profiles]] topic, this is basically just me moving the discussion from the [[Talk:Ace Attorney Wiki#Character Articles|main page's talk section]]. Leaving from where left there, here are some of the suggestion I'd have for the future changes in the character articles:
#Image galleries - Like the name suggests, it would contain most of the screenshosts, animations, and official art. Right now, articles are kinda littered with official art and low-quality graphics from game (like cut sprites itself), so I figured it would be about time for these.
#Relationships - Either as a sub-page or as a paragraph, perhaps including tabber function, maybe? Right now character relatonships are really more of just some vague mentions in the character table. This really doesn't properly cover some major relationships, which are quite often important in the events in the series
#Character portraits - <strike>I thought that showing whole body makes character image unnecessarily big, all the while it's too small to actually see it very well. I think we should try to either use mugshots from the characters in question, or cut the official art, so that it shows just face, or at least, their body chest up.</strike> (in progress)
#Age listing - That was an issue for quite a while and I think maybe we should go for something similar to the "last known status" or "occupation" sections. I already [[User:Sligneris/Sandbox 2|put something like this for Phoenix Wright]], <strike>which allowed to quickly deduce his birthday.  Would be convenient for the othe characters as well, don't you think?</strike> Nevermind, I think I screwed this up. Still, it's the closest to the canonical information we have, so I suppose it's worth noting on the character page. Phoenix's actual birth date would be 1992/1993, I believe.
#Nicknames and aliases clean-up - I believe we should, in short, get rid of all the "sir"s and "Mr. Attorney"s and keep this for actual nicknames and aliases such as "Nick", "Franzy" or "Laurice Deauxnim". You know, the kind of names that are actually used on a regular basics meant as actual nicknames. We should also find a more fitting for IDs, maybe? While they are worth noting, I think they feel off in there... What should follow would be turning it back into a regular table, not a collapsible one. When it comes to pages like [[Phantom]] or [[Viola Cadaverini]], one can get real tired of this.
I believe the points 4 and 5 are the only ones new here, so I'd preferably hear the new opinions about these. However, if you have something to say about the older suggestions, something that wasn't said before, feel free to address them: this is this thread's purpose after all. ^^ - [[User:Sligneris|Sligneris]] ([[User talk:Sligneris|talk]]) 18:30, May 23, 2014 (UTC)

:You already know my views on the old stuff, so I'll just comment on the new:
:4. I'm actually pretty happy with what we've got at the moment in terms of "last known status", as it covers their first and last appearances. If you've really that keen to have an age breakdown, then I would suggest it be put in a collapsible table to make it "optional viewing" as it were. If such a thing were possible, then it might be feasible to do a similar thing with "Debut" and put in all appearances, as I know at least [[Forum:Notion|one user was keen to have such a listing somewhere]].
:5. I'm not too fussed about this either, as it's all hidden away in a collapsible table. But I know Capefeather for one isn't the biggest fan of putting in "any term used for a character ever"... - [[User:Strabo412|Strabo412]] ([[User talk:Strabo412|talk]]) 21:47, May 23, 2014 (UTC)

::4. Age listing in a collapsible table? I'm not sure if this is actually necessary? I mean, if you did check my Sandbox I linked to earlier, you'd see Nick has only 4 ages listed, Edgeworth, the second most often appearing character in the series would maybe have just one more than that... I don't know, maybe we'll and change it if gets really bothersome, like with the aliases.
::5. Well, same, I cannot really do much more than just send you off again to the links I left in a previous message. It's... strange to be forced to expand the table to be able to see just a few aliases listed in there.

::Also, on the age listing idea, I tried to figure out Phoenix's birthday based on his age at the specific points in time:

{{InfoBox collapsible
|bgcolor=#2B3430
|fgcolor=white
|title=
|content='''21 (Apr. 11, 2014, "Turnabout Memories")''' <br> Had Birthday:<br> Yes: - Apr. 11, 1993 <br> No : Apr. 11, 1992 -

'''26 (Oct. 11, 2018 - Feb. 7, 2019, "The Stolen Turnabout" - "Bridge to the Turnabout")''' <br> Had Birthday:<br> Yes: - Oct. 11, 1992<br> No : <not possible>

'''33 (Apr. 20 - Oct. 9, 2026, "Turnabout trump" - "Turnabout Succession")'''<br> Had Birthday: <br> Yes: - Apr. 20, 1993 <br> No : Oct. 9, 1992 -

'''34 (Apr. 17 - Dec. 20, 2027, "The Monstrous Turnabout" - "Turnabout for Tomorrow")''' <br> Had Birthday: <br> Yes: - Apr. 17, 1993 <br> No : Dec. 20, 1992 -
}}
::I guess we could've said it was something between October 9~11, if it wasn't for Dual Destinies... But now, with it, I'm not really sure what we should do with and I think we should try to get a bit more specific in these birth dates, if possible. - [[User:Sligneris|Sligneris]] ([[User talk:Sligneris|talk]]) 22:12, May 23, 2014 (UTC)

I suggested in [[Talk:Timeline]] that we use a single birth year for every character, deduced only from the post-2004 games. The ambiguities resulting from crossing over New Year's all come from the original trilogy. I believe that this is the closest we'll get to how the writers think about the timeline. Whether or not Phoenix Wright is the only character with no logically consistent birth date, I personally don't see a point in deducing birthday ranges, given there's no evidence that the people in charge of the canon keep track of such matters, but I wouldn't protest if such an undertaking were attempted.

I'd love to have an alternative to the friends/affiliates entries in the infobox. For a while, I've secretly wanted to do away with the distinction, just because of the occasional disputes as to what constitutes a friend. I'm not exactly sure of how it would work, though, and how to deal with potential ambiguities.

[[User:Capefeather|capefeather]] ([[User talk:Capefeather|talk]]) 17:34, May 24, 2014 (UTC)

==Tabs==
Would it be a good idea to move other things from the main page to a separate tab (like with the image and sprite galleries)? The main candidates I had in mind were pop culture references and appearances in other media. With the latter, maybe non-canon versions of the character (like Phoenix Wright and his manga, movie, ''UMvC'', ''PLvsPWAA'' (if this one is non-canon), drama CD, stage show, and musical versions could be sorted away in such a manner? Just a thought... - [[User:Strabo412|Strabo412]] ([[User talk:Strabo412|talk]]) 11:18, May 27, 2014 (UTC)

:Yeah, I definitely agree, especially that I was just thinking the other day about separating PLvsPW:AA Nick from the one we see in the series. However, while we could handle it with that one example, you listed way too many of them for each to be listed in the tabs... Maybe we should try to implement alternate articles for the characters somewhere in the character template?

:What I thought would be useful as well, were separate image galleries for some of them: while I don't mind the crossover stuff all that much, the film adaptation picture and UMvC3 graphics really felt out of place there to me. - [[User:Sligneris|Sligneris]] ([[User talk:Sligneris|talk]]) 12:26, May 27, 2014 (UTC)

::I was thinking more one tab for the notable "alternative universe" versions, with each having its own section on that page. But there are a few ways we could go about it. As for images from adaptations, possibly we could just stick them all under a heading like "Images from adaptations", move them to the bottom on the page, then divide them into subheadings.

::While I remember, I did notice that you uploaded a couple of duplicate images when you were making the image galleries. Maybe the image categories might be useful to you in the future (e.g. [[:Category:Phoenix Wright images]])? Sorry in advance if this sounds like I'm getting on at you! I've got this weird obsession with trying to keep our images tidy and neat... - [[User:Strabo412|Strabo412]] ([[User talk:Strabo412|talk]]) 18:05, May 27, 2014 (UTC)

:::Uhm... On the other hand, I really think "Phoenix Wright (PL vs PW: AA)" should be a separate article on its own, I really don't see it mixed with, say, manga or UMvC3.

:::About images, don't worry, I know about that. Still, I was getting the sense some don't fit with the naming they have, so I must admit, I kinda did disregard that. Still, I was pretty certain wikias had anti-duplicate image system, that would notify me, if I did upload one? What happened to it?

:::I had moments with uploading both duplicates myself (e. g. the fanbook artwork images in the png version and later in jpg), but I marked one of them as articles for deletion...

:::On the other hand, what about the artwork you recently added back to most articles, especially the artbook rips that are almost identical to the HD sprites? Unless especially edited by you, should we really use these? =/ Wouldn't their presence on the concept art images be enough?

:::Also, you were wondering whether we should really get rid of all the images on main character articles, so I thought about it, and came to conclusion that unless we do something for the text seem less like a wall of text, we should keep at least some scene images. Full character images however, like JFA Phoenix or AJ Phoenix on Phoenix's article at the moment, should be removed, I think.

:::I was also wondering on adding non-scene specific screenshots, or maybe animations with specific events, such as Matt Engarde's breakdown. While it does use usual sprite format, with backgrounds and all that, I think these are still quite significant events... - [[User:Sligneris|Sligneris]] ([[User talk:Sligneris|talk]]) 08:39, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

::::I suppose ''PLvsPW'' could be a separate tab. In fact, is it possible to have tabs within tabs? That could work, especially if we use character infoboxes for each version.

::::I guess I get where you're coming from with file names, but it's not something that bothers me too much. It's just a pity wikia doesn't let you rename images. As for the duplicate image notification, I have no idea. I re-uploaded the SD version of Missile's "mugshot" yesterday (for consistency on the evidence list page), only to realise that it had the same name as the current HD one you uploaded; the wiki went ahead and replaced it without asking me first. I don't have "ignore warnings" on, so who knows what the heck is going on there...

::::The reason for me putting the artbook rips back onto their respective pages were partially me being narcissistic about my own uploads and partially about me trying to clear out [[Special:UnusedFiles]]. However, while I do agree that in-game "cutscene" images would definitely be better companions for an article's text, sometimes there just aren't any that would be suitable. For example, there aren't any nice full-colour screenshots for ''AJ'' Phoenix. In such an absence, I felt that the official art was pretty good for showing what the character looked like at that important time of his life. As for "non-scene specific screenshots, or maybe animations with specific events", I'm not quite sure I follow. The example you use is Engarde, but he already has sprites of his breakdown on his page. I suppose if you were wanting them animated, you could just bump them up to "256px"... - [[User:Strabo412|Strabo412]] ([[User talk:Strabo412|talk]]) 11:19, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

:::::The thing with [[Template:Tab]] is that it is meant for characters and has "Image Gallery" and "Sprite Gallery" as tabs by defualt. However, I could maybe try to make this one more customizable and add a new template that would have these default galleries... Well, still, my knowledge on the "pure" wiki formatting is a bit limited, do I'll try and see what I can do, and what I can't...

:::::What I meant by the "scenes" are for example, in-game images listed in Phoenix's gallery. What I proposed is to make some shots from the "usual" setup, as in, with a sprite and a background, like [[:File:Kristoph Gavin Breakdown.gif]]. In fact, I think we should replace all the images in [[Breakdown]] with this kind of animations, instead of the sprite itself.

:::::Now, about giving readers the idea of how the character looked at a certain period of time, it might be a bit overused idea, but maybe we could go with similar "portraits" to the ones we use for character profiles? I don't know, I just really feel like the articles have too many things on them taking up too much space. - [[User:Sligneris|Sligneris]] ([[User talk:Sligneris|talk]]) 16:33, May 28, 2014 (UTC)