Following the discussion started here and Strabo412's suggestion, this thread's purpose is to decide between character profiles for articles, if there are several alternatives. The character profiles for Dahlia Hawthorne and Dee Vasquez have already been decided on the talk page linked, the rest will be decided below - Sligneris (talk) 19:04, May 22, 2014 (UTC)
The point?
Ok Why? No seriously. I don't want to get into an unesseary arugument, especailly over something so silly. But just answer me, what is so DAMN wrong with their official artwork!?Franzyfan1998 (talk) 17:54, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
- Not wrong per se, but I think they were a bit too big for a box that's supposed to have just some basic information about a character. There aren't really a whole lot of wikis that would go for a full body shot instead of just a picture showing a person's face. - Sligneris (talk) 15:58, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
- I really don't see the problem in using the whole body. And Professor Layton Wiki allows ful body images, and they're a lot more concious about keeping spoilers away from the viewer. And another point, (and I'm not supporting you if you change it) it seems pointless to have a close up of DD Phoenix when we have full body images in the article. It just seems like unnessasary work you are instigating. I am going to put my foot down on this subject and i rarely do that!Franzyfan1998 (talk) 17:54, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
- Then go ahead, participate in an edit war in attempts to repeatetively undo edits that no one but you objected to. Either way, I'm not going to stop simply because of you obstracting these changes.
- And, by the way, Layton games are not a valid example. The characters there are way too cartoony, unnaturally short. While it works there, it doesn't mean it has to here. I'd better compare it to anime wikis, like, say, Shingeki no Kyojin.
- This arguement is getting stupid. And How are ANIME wikis a VIDEOGAMES wikis' equal. Of course I don't expect animes/live action shows to have full body images! It's a freaking TV show! TV shows can use screenshots! That's fine with me! BUT we have the full body images, we should use them. And if PRofessor Layton is not this game's equal, as they are as you put it too cartoonish some 3D examples. KIRBY, KINGDOM HEARTS, SUPER SMASH BROTHERS, LEGEND OF ZELDA, MARIO, BULBAPEDIA (for the most part) and FINAL FANTASY!
- And if you're treating it like an anime why don't you do screenshots?! HM
- Also if the full body images are so large, you shrink it. It's not like it's not optional! You have the ability to size it down.
- Please answer me one queestion and I may retract my objections. (May). Why is it so DAMN nessasary to have the profiles, and to make the edits, when it was never nessasary in the first place!?Franzyfan1998 (talk) 23:39, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
Your aggressive tone/edits and interesting spelling/grammar is starting to make it difficult to take you seriously Franzyfan1998 (and the editor in me is finding the urge to correct your spelling almost overpowering; there is obviously something wrong with me). At the risk of sounding incredibly patronising (for which I apologise in advance), please just calm down, take a deep breath, and remember that we're discussing a relatively minor video game wiki here, not anything important. Let's just work things out here first before you both go charging off and start knocking over the stuff I had nicely arranged engaging in edit wars.
I believe Sligneris' basic reasoning (feel free to correct me here Sligneris) was that he was unhappy with the large size of the full-body art in the infoboxes, and thus wanted to have nice close-up images of the character's faces instead. This would also have the side-effect of standardising the size of the image in the infobox, which can often be inconsistent across different pages, as well as create a sense of consistency across character pages by having them all be mugshots, making the difference in image less jarring between main characters with lovely full-body art (e.g., Phoenix Wright) and characters that only have mugshots (e.g., Dustin Prince). I will admit I am still not 100% sold on the idea, but since he start implementing it (slightly before it was actually agreed on, but whatever), I've started to warm to it. My main reasons for this are the aforementioned size and appearance consistency, as well as making the infobox look more like a police file on the character (which I quite like).
I will admit, however, that Franzyfan1998 does have a point; drawing comparisons with anime wikis is a bit daft, especially since I can't think of a single videogame wiki offhand that doesn't use full-body OA, and can even think of a couple of anime wikis that use full OA. A possible compromise idea I've been toying with has been using something similar to this, with tabs that can be used to change the displayed image (obviously without clicking said tab changing the entire infobox in the process, as is the case in the linked example). Ideally, on this wiki, a mugshot of the character's most recent appearance would be the default, with full OA in chronological order (including the most recent appearance) following it. I could have a go at this if you guys would like, but 1) my understanding of templates is a bit... iffy, 2) I'm kinda busy with real life stuff at the moment, and 3) it's past 2 o'clock in the morning where I am and so a bit late for complex faffing about with templates.
I am going to revert the current modified pages to the mugshots for now until we work out a cease-fire figure out what we're doing. - Strabo412 (talk) 01:20, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
- Look I too want Dustin and Phoenix to have full body artwork and for their templetes to be the same, but aside from changing everyone's profile to well their actual profiles listed in the games, it will be quite impossible. For one thing Phoenix has a lot more friends than Dustin. The profiles are not the only thing making the difference. and I think one solution would be to just resize the profiles to like 120px or 150px.
- Now out of respect for the mediator I won't rechange it, for the momemt, but i still think this really unnecessary. The profiles or whatever.Franzyfan1998 (talk) 02:09, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
- Actually, I didn't think I needed permission for the minor full official art-less characters like Dustin Prince... Well, unless you mean the later portraits, which were Judge, Judge's brother and Dahlia, if I recall correctly... Then, sorry ^^;
- The problem wasn't only with the size though. Most of the images were artbook scans, which had a whole lot of color inconsistencies. I will admit that the full body art of Phoenix didn't look so bad, even while I think it was too big. But, what would you say about Grossberg or Maggey? Not so neat and consistent anymore, is it?
- As a general rule, the right thing to have done would have been to discuss the issue with other wikia members before jumping the gun, so to speak, on what is evidently a big overhaul. I myself do not have a problem either way, but if this is the "accepted" way, then we really should do the other characters too...otherwise it'll just look awkward. CrashBash (talk) 17:56, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
- Yeah, on that matter, I actually wanted to go ahead and change some more profiles already, but seeing there seems to be an objection about that, it would be uncalled for to just go ahead and continue, without any "solid" word on it... I'm kind of conflicted on what I should do here. - Sligneris (talk) 22:19, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
- While I do concede that Grossberg is not as full body as other's, Maggey has three so if you don't like one you can pick another. Personally I would pick Tres Bien's outfit. Also If it is not trouble, could you expand on the whole problem with the artbook scans. It's a little ambigious or the correct word.Franzyfan1998 (talk) 23:22, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
- I am really-really sorry to ask again, but I need some fram of reference. Who are we talking about so I can see the point? I am not trying to be rude, I just need some clarification.Franzyfan1998 (talk) 23:24, June 16, 2014 (UTC)
There we go, isn't this much more cordial? ^_^
Franzyfan1998: Examples of what Sligneris is talking about would be Media:PhoenixWright-AA5.png for a high-quality image and Media:Lance Amano.PNG for a more crudely-edited lower quality artbook scan. I'd like the character templates to be 1) more unified in appearance and 2) much shorter for some characters (I'm looking at you Nick), and feel that achieving both of these is possible; I have thoughts on this, which I'll go into in a bit.
Sligneris: Concerning replacing the more minor characters' mugshots with higher quality ones, I had no problem with that. It was really more when you started on characters that had full OA that I kinda went "hmmm..." to myself. But, as I stated before, I've warmed to the idea since. Concerning further changes, I'm more or less alright with you continuing, but still think figuring out some way to have both mugshot-style images and full OA in tabs might be a good compromise.
CrashBash: Pretty much what you're saying.
I've had a wee think and come up some thoughts for character template changes, with the main aim being to have them consistent across characters and make them less cluttered:
1) Tabs for images, as previously stated. I've tried to figure out how they work by checking out a few wikis I knew to use them, but my attempts have so far been completely fruitless (mostly due to said wikis using far more complex templates for their characters than we do). Any help would be appreciated.
2) Remove the friends, family, and affiliates sections and put them into a character tab called something like "relationships"; basically a more drastic version of what Sligneris has suggested in the past. Or we could do as the Layton wiki does and put the details of that characters relationship (e.g., former client) in mouse-over text.
3) Combine character names in different languages and their meanings/puns into a table (like Bulbapedia does) either under the current "Name" section or into another character tab. Alternatively, non-English names could be placed in a collapsible section at the bottom (à la the Layton wiki).
4) Make Actors and Miscellaneous a collapsible section.
These would reduce the current template to just aliases and biological information, with Actors and Miscellaneous (and possible non-English names) in a drop-down section, as well as having the character image a consistent size via a mugshot. I'll try to create a prototype in my sandbox when I get the chance; a picture is worth a thousand words after all. - Strabo412 (talk) 17:16, June 17, 2014 (UTC)
- About the whole artbook scans, I kind of see the point, but it seems like nitpicking if you ask me. It's not that obvious or at the very least, it's not that distracting.
- Now Strabo412: some comments. I think making the relationships section collapsable would be the much simpliar solution. And I check the wiki on my I-pod, and mouse over is making it a bit too complicated. To the bulbapedia idea, I see the point and actually the more I think about it the more it makes sense. But it does get a bit complicated with all the nicknames and one-off pun names, and I stil thik we did the right thing in simply making it collaspsable. Also the GK2 can't be the same so... My head hurts.
- Personally I think were making a big deal of nothing the more we can into this discusion.Franzyfan1998 (talk) 03:02, June 21, 2014 (UTC)
- Um hi Sligneris I though we agreed to call a truce before we make more edits.Franzyfan1998 (talk) 03:02, June 21, 2014 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, it just seems there are at least two other users who seems to have no problem with the changes, while only you oppose. Thus, I just thought I wouldn't hold back any longer with it, and, more or less, decided to ignore you ^^; I also don't recall agreeing to anything, sorry. I held back for a moment, because of your objection, but at the current point in time, your whole activity seems to be just - and I won't put it gently - whining about things. Also, this page's point was to decide between several alternatives of profile images so I would really appreciate if we could stop making over a half it a giant wall of text. Perhaps we could move this discussion somewhere or at least stop increasing it in size? - Sligneris (talk) 10:09, June 21, 2014 (UTC)
- You no good little brat! Do you want to keep this war up! I'm trying to play diplomat and listen to you! If you don't give me that, then why oh why SHOULD I GIVE IT TO YOU!Franzyfan1998 (talk) 20:02, June 21, 2014 (UTC)
Larry Butz
Now, this one I feel is kinda tricky. We could go with the second one, just like in Dee Vasquez's case, because it better reflects personality. The third one on the other hand is more up-to-date with Larry's occupation as of Trials and Tribulations or Gyakuten Kenji 2, as an artist.
1 File:Larry Butz Portrait 1.png 2 <file removed> 3 <file removed>
Looking at this now, I'm leaning more towards the third, but I'm really not certain about that.
- Sligneris (talk) 19:04, May 22, 2014 (UTC)
- Personally, I'd go with the one that reflects the character better as a whole...and that would mean the second one. CrashBash (talk) 19:36, May 22, 2014 (UTC)
- That might be the case, but we should also keep in mind that with characters like Adrian, Phoenix, or Edgeworth, we'll be going for T&T and DD designs respectively... I don't know, maybe we should try to keep this consistent and go with the "last appearance" rule? - Sligneris (talk) 11:57, May 23, 2014 (UTC)
- Phoenix's main picture shows what he is and who he is. So does Edgeworth's. Larry's doesn't, but instead shows him what/who he's trying to be. It doesn't show who "he" is. Which is why I prefer Will Powers' current main picture because it shows him, rather than the "official one" as the Steel Samurai, what he's trying to be. Basically, it'd make more sense to show Larry as Larry. CrashBash (talk) 15:00, May 23, 2014 (UTC)
- Ah, I see what you mean. I'm not sure if I agree, though. While this may hold true for his Steel Samurai, Guard, or especially Santa outfits, his occupation as an artist has become more... constant, as of a while. What I mean by that is that he appeared two times already with this outfit and occupation, three if we count background cameo in Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney.
- At this point of time, using his painter outfit as a profile might be akin to using Apollo in his suit - presenting a character in their work clothes instead of casual outfit.
- Actually, come to think of it, Will Powers' character image at the moment should really be him back in his tracksuit-thing, since that's what he was last seen wearing in The Grand Turnabout. Oh well, since it's all getting changed anyway, I guess it doesn't matter. Compared to Dahlia and Vasquezz, this one is actually much harder. I suppose it depends on whether or not we decide to use full character art in the infobox via a tab or not. If yes, no.1 (initially I was going to say 2, but it's beginning to unnerve me slightly; he also doesn't have that sprite in any of the other games - RIP?). If not, no.3. - Strabo412 (talk) 21:55, May 23, 2014 (UTC)
Maggey Byrde
1 
2 
- Sligneris (talk) 11:51, May 24, 2014 (UTC)
Mia Fey
1 
2 
- Sligneris (talk) 17:21, June 20, 2014 (UTC)
Trucy Wright
1 
2 
This, and Mia above are mostly the conflict between the usual direct eye contact and the quality of the newer works. While either may look fine on Mia, Trucy takes a really exaggerated stance on the first one, but the resolution is also pretty tiny on the second one... Any thoughts on these ones? - Sligneris (talk) 17:21, June 20, 2014 (UTC)