Talk: Godot

3-5

The bit about Bridge to the Turnabout seems to be way too long and some of the info might be better off in the case's article. However, I'm not really sure about how to go about fixing this. Another thing I'm wondering is whose big idea it was to italicize names of Godot and Phoenix. I mean, they're not novels, lol. -Capefeather 03:09, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Source?

Does Godot's birthday have a source? -Capefeather 03:19, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Sherlock Holmes

Umm, ok I'm still very much stunned that Sherlock Holmes exists in the Ace Attorney Universe. However since it appears to be true, what are we going to do about the reference to Sherlock Holmes that Godot makes in Bridge to the Turnabout?Franzyfan1998 (talk) 00:40, September 11, 2014 (UTC)

People quote historical figures all the time. - Strabo412 (talk) 21:28, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

Age

There has been a dispute over recent edits made by me and other editors. Now I stand firm Godot's birthyear is 1985. One person claimed that I am making Godot the only exception to the Two-year principle. While I am not a fan I wil say that Godot is not the only excpetion - Dustin Prince would be another since his Birthday is mentioned and his age is also mentioned.

But getting to my point. Godot was born between February and August as seen from Turnabout Beginnings and Turnabout Memories. And in the present cases of Trials and Tribulations he is listed as 33. Accoring to the Two-year principle Trials and Tribulations takes place in 2018-2019 or 2017-2018 (from what I can tell). The contributors who say Godot has two possible birth years state his birthyear is either 1985 or 1986.

There in lies the problem.

First let's assume that Trials and Tribulations, for the most part, takes place in 2018-2019, as the wiki states on the official page. If Godot is born in 1985 he would be 33 on December 31st, 2018. And is going on 34 in 2019. However if he is born in 1986 he would be 32 on December 31st, 2018. And going on 33 in 2019. A clear contradiction.

And if we are using the Two-year principle then well the contradiction is just obvious, making Godot's age reported in the profile not off by only one year but two years by December 31st, 2018.

I am not a big fan of the Two-year principle but if we are going to use it we should do it right, because as we see there is a definite flaw that Godot proves.Franzyfan1998 (talk) 19:37, November 1, 2014 (UTC)

It's impossible for some characters to have a birthday at all if we take profile ages at face value. That's what the vast majority of this timeline discussion stuff was addressing. capefeather (talk) 20:33, November 1, 2014 (UTC)

So your takeaway from all that evidence is that Godot doesn't have a birthday.

Let me tell you. yes one source that his birthday is between February and August is from the court-records. But the other source i tell you is a police report! Now are you going to ignore that one too or are you going to listen and double check your facts!?Franzyfan1998 (talk) 20:41, November 1, 2014 (UTC)

I was referring more to Phoenix Wright, Miles Edgeworth and Pearl Fey, among possibly others. capefeather (talk) 21:22, November 1, 2014 (UTC)

That does not make your error go away. Double check your work!Franzyfan1998 (talk) 23:57, November 1, 2014 (UTC)

It's not an error. It's intentional... capefeather (talk) 23:57, November 1, 2014 (UTC)

It's intentional to get his age wrong?! It's intentional to contradict your own solution!? It's intentional to get basic arithmatic wrong!? If he is born in 1986 he would be 32 on December 31st, 2018. And going on 33 in 2019. That is just wrong for both years you think T&T ends and the years you think TB and TM take place!

If you are going to use this double year standard The least you could do is make sure the possible birthyears match the information given in the gamesFranzyfan1998 (talk) 01:07, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

2018 - 33 = 1985 2019 - 33 = 1986

But more to the point: Gregory Edgeworth is 35 in 2001 (deduced birth year: 1966). Fifteen years later, he would be 50. Two years after that, he would be 52, i.e. 19 years older than Godot. On the other hand, Apollo Justice is 22 in 2026 (deduced birth year: 2004). Seven years before that, he's 15, i.e. 18 years younger than Godot. If we deduce Godot's birth year from Gregory's, we get 1985. If we deduce it from Apollo's, we get 1986. This is why the two year thing exists in the first place. capefeather (talk) 01:19, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for doing basic arithmatic but it would appear you are forgetting that Trials and Tribulations spans 2 years. So really you have 3 years to consider. 2017, 2018, and 2019.

2017-33=1984! 2017-1986=31: 2017-1985=32

2018-33=1985! 2018-1986=32! 2018-1984=34

2019-1985=34: 2019-1986=33: 2019-1984=35

Keep in mind he is turning 34 the year the game ends!

So which year do you think T&T starts and which years do you T&T ends!

You don't deduce someone's age from how much older or younger they are from another. And besides that's logic is somewhat stupid. Where do we get Gregory and Apollo's age from? We get someone's age from the information given. That is the court-record and the police report. They tell you when Godot's birthyear should be given when you want this game to take place.Franzyfan1998 (talk) 02:16, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

I'm showing why directly deducing birth years (i.e. "Keep in mind he is turning 34 the year the game ends!") doesn't work. We went over this many times in the past few months. Don't you remember the conversations with Sligneris and CrashBash on this? capefeather (talk) 02:21, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

And remember, Gregory's age is given in the DL-6 files and Apollo's age is given in both DD and the MASON System segment of AJ. capefeather (talk) 02:23, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

Yes I remember! I was in the arguements about the timeline! And you're dodging!

The whole turning 34 thing in the year T&T ends has facts in the game both court-record and the police files! And to that point why must we ignore the police reports about Godot in favor of Gregory's. And why are we deducing Godot's age from Apollo, who mind you we get from the court-record, the same one that you doubt and the one that proves Godot's birthyear to be 1985 (or 1984 depending on when you want T&T to be reported to end)! You're system of deduction is flawed.Franzyfan1998 (talk) 02:41, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

I'm using YOUR system of deduction and showing why it doesn't make sense when trying to compare characters' ages, which is pretty much the only real purpose of this exercise. capefeather (talk) 02:50, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

So what your saying is we should ignore game information just so we can patch up a few contradictions. Sweep it under the rug huh? Is that the correct assumption I should make of this because that is what it looks like.

Besides about Godot's age being deduced from Apollo's. A little flawed. Yes 33-18=15. But there is no confirmed reports about when Apollo's birthday is. We can vaguely deduce between December and April. And Apollo turns 15 in 2019 or whenever. For all we know he could have been 14 in BTTT. So on December 31st, 2018, Apollo is 14. 19 years younger than Godot. 33-19=14;34-19=15! Franzyfan1998 (talk) 03:29, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

Let's remind ourselves of the three systems being proposed:

• The direct deduction method. This doesn't work for every character. Phoenix Wright, Miles Edgeworth and Pearl Fey cannot have birthdays with this.
• The assumption that profile ages are talking about what age a character will be by the end of the year. This can work but birth years don't line up properly because of the time skip debacle.
• The two-year system proposed in Ace Attorney Wiki:Timeline.

I feel that you're getting hung up on the first point even though I've pointed out already why it doesn't work. Or at least it seems that way. capefeather (talk) 03:58, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

I don't see why you're still objecting.

• It may not work for all characters but it works for some. Is it fair to them to be ignored?
• You know if the time skip debacle is so under debate than you really shouldn't use evidence from that (i.e. Apollo) And yes it is impossible for Apollo to be 15 on December 21st, 2018 11:59:59. Therefore he's19 years younger than Godot (or 18 and X months). (And that's your evidence that proved that)
• I did use the two year system and prooved how it is wrong to assume Godot's second possible birthyear is 1986 remember?!

If he is born in 1986 he would be 32 on December 31st, 2018. In other words if T&T ends in 2018 as you claim or possibly claim, Godot would be at most 32 by end game, One year off! Franzyfan1998 (talk) 13:29, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

Excuse me, I know it's not right of me to jump the gun, but I managed to calculate Diego Armando/Godot's age as being between February 11-15 of 1985. If it was after February 15, he would still be 26 in Turnabout Beginnings, but if it was before February 11, he would already be 34 in Bridge to the Turnabout. This is assuming Beginnings takes place in 2013, by the way. If either of you have any objections, let me know, and I'll see what I can do. 75.108.29.6 14:54, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

I was under impression we never got to know Diego's birthday, except in Turnabout Beginnings? - Sligneris (talk) 15:13, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

2013-1985=28, the age reported in the poisoning records. He was 27 in TB So his birthday is between February 16th and August 27th. And this has no contradictions with other sources.Franzyfan1998 (talk) 18:33, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

• Actually, I just realized a contradiction in my testimony. The February 11-15 testimony suggests that Beginnings took place in 2012 when it took place in 2013. Godot's birthday is actually after February 16 and he is 27 going on to 28 in 2013. I still believe he is 33 going on to 34 in 2019 though. 75.108.29.6 20:03, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

I don't know how many times you're going to repeat the same thing over and over. This is the same stuff from the timeline discussions and it seems to me that you're never going to budge from your insistence on deducing characters' ages directly from profiles. Yes, it's impossible for Godot to be born in 1986 if we take the profile ages at face value. That's the damn point of an alternate birth dating system; it's supposed to interpret everything differently.

I just don't think that "let's just ignore the weird cases" cuts it as justification. Phoenix/Edgeworth/Pearl are just the impossible ones. We've observed that, at least the vast majority of the time, characters don't have birthdays pass during the progression of each game. So then the logic of people's birthdays is tied to when Phoenix happens to take cases. Personally, I see this as a problem.

capefeather (talk) 20:35, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

Let's get something staright right now! I never said Phoenix Edgeworth and Pearl were the only impossible ones. All I said was Godot wasn't impossible. He points out a flaw in the 'solution'.

The main question is when do these games take place and how does the two year system work? Because it looks like we are going from when the game ends and forgetting when each game starts.

Let me tell you if we are just moving the games back one year then Godot isn't the only one getting his birthyear wrong.Franzyfan1998 (talk) 20:53, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

You say that like it isn't acknowledged multiple times in Ace Attorney Wiki:Timeline. capefeather (talk) 21:06, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

Look you got a math problem wrong. It's as simple as that. So why are you being so defensive. I'll fix the year and that will be the end of it.

All I ask is that you double check in the future. Ok?Franzyfan1998 (talk) 21:16, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

I'm just frustrated because you're refusing to understand where I'm coming from at all. The same thing happened with the timeline discussion. I'm not repeating explanations any longer. capefeather (talk) 21:24, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

Look all I'm saying is you did you're math wrong, so i corrected it. Ok? I don't like it but I'll still contribute to make sure the facts check out ok?Franzyfan1998 (talk) 21:44, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

No, I did not do the math "wrong". The only reason you think that is because you're misreading or misunderstanding the policy on this. I made the template underline the years so that hovering over it would say, "This may look wrong. Click on the question mark for details." I did this so that inane conversations like this wouldn't have to happen, and so that people would at least understand what's happening and be on the same page. I even bolded phrases in the policy page. None of this should have had to be explained to you in this talk page. Do you at least see why I'm reacting kind of negatively to this? capefeather (talk) 21:55, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

You want to avoid contradictions with the characters ages. I do too. However Godot is reported to be 33 in October 2018 as well as February 2019. ('17 and '18 or whenever). Can't change that. So to accomaodate to your system 2018-34=1984. 2017-33=194. Stop forgetting that T&T spans two yearsFranzyfan1998 (talk) 22:02, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

I see you don't understand and refuse to. capefeather (talk) 22:09, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

Seriously, if you don't agree with the the timeline policy (which you are doing by repeating the same points over and over), you could always dispute it on its talk page. You could have disputed it when it was written. Where were you when this had been written out? capefeather (talk) 22:13, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

Probably either on vacation, finishing summer homework or even doing homework when it was written and decied that it wasn't worth argueing again and again. However that still does not mean it's possible for Godot to be born in 1986 and be 33 in 2018. Or better yet be 28 in 2012/13 when we have police data verifying his age.

2012-1986=26; 2013-1986=27

Can you see Why it has to  be 1984 or 1985, or do I have to contact your third grade math teacher.Franzyfan1998 (talk) 22:24, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

You keep saying it's "not possible" for Godot to be born in 1986. You also keep subtracting a year because it's "possible" that a birthday happened before the new year. This means you're completely missing the point of the policy. As it says:

• "Because birthdays mostly do not occur during games, this wiki will not attempt to deduce characters' birthdays. It does not make much sense to deduce the birthday range of a major character on the basis of the fact that certain episodes take place at certain dates."

and

• Note that, in many cases, if we are to deduce the possible birth dates directly from the profiles, then only one of the two birth years is actually possible (e.g. the characters in The Inherited Turnabout). However, as stated before, we're not deducing character birthdays directly from profiles because it interferes with the first goal.

If you're going to just keep insulting me instead of taking the time to understand what is clearly written in the policy page, then I don't see why I should entertain this thing any further. And again, you don't understand because you keep making points that are already acknowledged and addressed in the document. capefeather (talk) 22:38, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

You know what maybe I'm not getting it. Maybe this is all just too much for me to comprehend.

Or maybe you're not getting it.

Look I'll give you what you want. I don't like this system. Does that mean I will attack it: no! If I attacked everthing I didn't like I'd proabaly be expelled from school. So let me set the record straight. I'm not attacking it. I am just making sure the facts check out.

I can't erase game data but if I had to chose between the information given in the court-record or the information given in the police article then the police article wins. But that doesn't change the fact that Godot could not have been born in 1986 if TB and Diego's poisoning case took place in either 2012 or 2013 as the two year system claims. And you can see the math above so I won't do it again.

I don't mean to insult I only mean to correct. I apologise for my childish behavior. I admit I was acting like I child and you have to believe that that was the last thing I wanted to do. I wish I could take back those insults. But don't you dare think I will take back what I said about Godot's birthyear. That is a fact. And no one can change a fact.Franzyfan1998 (talk) 23:15, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

If the "facts" were the issue here, I could have pointed out that Godot's birth year can't be deduced as 1984, either. Between 3-4 and the poisoning, as you said, it has to be Feb. - Aug. 1985. But that's not what the purpose of the two-year system is. Again I have to ask: Is it really reasonable for a bunch of recurring characters to have birthdays within the same few months, just because most people don't seem to have birthdays in-game? I doubt that that's what the writers of the games are going for here. capefeather (talk) 23:30, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

No it's not fair. But that doesn't prove your point. Just explain why his second possible birth year has to be 1986 instead of '84. I really need to know. Because there are only two explanations I can think of that would work for him being born in 1986: Either the two-year system doesn't include months or T&T ends in 2020 thus making TB take place in 2014.

I was simply accomadating for both 2018 and 2019. But I guess that wasn't a worthy enough cause huh?Franzyfan1998 (talk) 23:43, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

[1985, 1986] + [27, 27] = [2012, 2013] which is Reminiscence/Beginnings capefeather (talk) 23:47, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

And the police report form Diego's poisoning file states otherwise. Don't push that under the rug.Franzyfan1998 (talk) 23:54, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

The police report says Diego is 28 years old on August 27, 2013. The poisoning can be regarded as being in the Memories time frame. [1985, 1986] + [28, 28] = [2013, 2014] capefeather (talk) 23:56, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

you know that's not true. Dahlia is still listed as 19 the age in TB. If the poisoning was truly meant to be regarded in TM's year than Dahlia would have been listed as 20.Franzyfan1998 (talk) 00:39, November 3, 2014 (UTC)

Well, I suppose if Dahlia's age doesn't increment in the police report, this could count for our purposes as someone having a birthday during the course of a game. Larry also apparently turns 26 between AAI1 and AAI2, but I've never gotten around to verifying that. It's easier to verify with the first four games because there are transcripts and such (but not for some cases)... capefeather (talk) 03:30, November 3, 2014 (UTC)

Seriously, the double-year implementation for Godot is consistent with the double-year implementation for other characters. I don't know why you're so fixated on this one particular character. capefeather (talk) 01:32, November 6, 2014 (UTC)

Well I guess we have to fix everyone else huh?Franzyfan1998 (talk) 02:05, November 6, 2014 (UTC)

Meanwhile, in 1986, Diego Armando Maradona scored two goals agaisnt England. What a coincidence. -- 00:30, February 18, 2015 (UTC)

Fate?

What happens to him after T&T?

Most people just say he died (Something about not visiting the doctor anymore or how he's with Mia and Misty in the notebook picture

However, the Wiki says he's still alive.

So yeah, any opinions ? I hope he's still alive.

95.236.45.218 14:23, June 15, 2015 (UTC)Xera

His page only says that he was last seen alive. With some notable exceptions, we don't know what happens to culprits in Ace Attorney cases after being arrested, although Godot may have had a lenient sentence since he was defending Maya's life at the time. I think the only reference to him after T&T is in Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 and the Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney special episode Reunion, which are both obviously non-canon. - Strabo412 (talk) 14:56, June 15, 2015 (UTC)