Talk: The Monstrous Turnabout

Temp. name change to 'Pandemonium'.

I suggest, for consistency sake, to call this episode 'Turnabout Pandemonium' for now. 'Pandemonium' is the most obvious and very simple translation, as Hyakkiyakou is a parade of demons and ghosts. Since the other two episodes were given a temporary literal translations here on this wikia, I think this case should also be named like this. Just because the other two episodes have those simple translations doesn't mean that localisation will have the exact same names, so I think that there is as much chance of the first and third case being named 'Countdown' and 'Academy' as the second being named 'Pandemonium'.

89.76.26.96 10:07, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

I would, but due to translation issues and the kanji words on the title of the case. I think its better to wait for Strabo412 and/or capefeather to do the final decision on whether or not the the case's title is "Turnabout Pandemonium". Knowledge can be anything or something you know about. (talk) 16:16, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

I'm flattered that you think my opinion counts! :P Since we don't have a satisfactory literal translation for this case (I was hoping that the Gematsu article that gave us those localisation name would also give us a English case title, but apparently not...) I think Turnabout Hyakkiyakō will do for now as a placeholder. - Strabo412 (talk) 17:52, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

I actually find the title kind of awkward because it's a partially translated one. The full romaji reading would be Gyakuten Hyakkiyakō. But honestly I don't really care at this point. capefeather (talk) 20:48, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

Okay I have to admit it. It's really beginning to bug me now. Part of me is wondering if Capcom PR people are looking at this wiki and just not releasing the name of Case 2 just because we haven't found a name for it... That's probably paranoia, though. Although we're not in a position to know for sure, "Turnabout Pandemonium" seems like the least awkward name from all the suggestions I've seen. What do you guys think? capefeather (talk) 23:11, July 19, 2013 (UTC)

Heh. I know what you mean! The best evidence for such a conspiracy was a case description for Turnabout Academy being used instead of Case 2 for the Blackquill gameplay video. I personally still don't have a problem with "Turnabout Hyakkiyakō", although this might be partly due the fact that it'll probably just be renamed in a couple of months anyway when the game is released in English. - Strabo412 (talk) 17:57, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

True, it will get an English name in a few months, and it would be annoying if the name had to be changed twice. capefeather (talk) 20:13, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

What's with the feathers at the crime scene?

I'm curious about the feathers at the scene of the crime. Are they trying to frame Temen Taro? (Not sure on the spelling, so sorry). The only other thing that I can think of is Simon Blackquill and Gin. Not entirly sure why, but yeah. There is a time for all things, and the end of a thing is better then the beginning. (talk) 19:18, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

It's probably something to do with Tenma Taro, yeah. But basically we don't know at the moment. - Strabo412 (talk) 19:20, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

Demo evidence

I'm a bit wary about the evidence in the Comic-Con demo (Mr. Wright's Last Will, etc). The demo scenario seems more likely to just be something they made up for the demo to avoid spoilers. I mean, there a bomb and Ted Tonate in the same room in a Japanese demo, wasn't there? - Strabo412 (talk) 17:40, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

Yup, Capcom showed that Japanese demo in TGS 2012. However...the differences between demos is that San Diego Comic-Con 2013's demo revealed to the players that Phoenix Wright went missing after calling Apollo...which probably occurred early into the case. The TGS 2012's Japanese demo probably occurred after Apollo and Athena found/"rescue" Mr. Wright since he (Mr. Wright) was the one who found Ted behind that door. Either way, I guess what you said is true, that Capcom is trying to avoid spoilers to the fans. Knowledge can be anything or something you know about. (talk) 08:24, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Are either scenario from the final version of the game though? That's the point I was making. I suppose they can stay on the page for now, but I'll pop in a disclaimer after them saying something like: "possibly demo only". It can be removed later if it is in the final game. - Strabo412 (talk) 16:44, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Location names

Does anyone remember if the garden and foyer are referred to as anything other than "garden" and "foyer"? Were they even directly referred to at all? I mean other than the "Kyubi Manor - Garden" and "Kyubi Manor - Foyer" designations. capefeather (talk) 02:35, December 17, 2013 (UTC)

In terms of "green typewriter text", I think it was "Kyubi Manor - Garden" and "Kyubi Manor - Foyer". Otherwise, I'm fairly sure they are just referred to as "garden" and "foyer"... - Strabo412 (talk) 14:28, December 17, 2013 (UTC)

It actually turns out that the garden is called "Kyubi Manor Garden" ("Kyubi Manor's Garden" at least once in dialogue) and the foyer "Kyubi Manor Foyer". So there ya go... - Strabo412 (talk) 16:53, February 11, 2014 (UTC)

Narrator

Does anyone know if the narrator for this episode's opening cutscene is meant to be anyone in particular? Jinxie perhaps? - Strabo412 (talk) 14:57, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

Heh, I was just thinking about asking whether anyone knew who voices the narrator in the beginning. capefeather (talk) 20:48, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

References of biblical proportions?

I'll just clarify as to why I removed the bible references from the "References to popular culture" section. While "scales fell from his eyes" and "love of money is the root of all evil" do indeed originate from the bible, I believe that they are not worth mentioning for three reasons: 1) Although they come from the bible, said phrases have entered the common vernacular to the point that they no longer directly reference the source material. Instead, they are just common phrases/expressions/idioms. 2) Most definitions of pop culture that I can find do not include ancient religious texts. 3) Although something I find very interesting to learn about, pointing out the origins of every phrase/expression/idiom is completely unnecessary. If we were to include such things from the bible, we'd have no reason to not include Shakespeare ones. And there will be multiple such Shakespeare "references" in every AA episode. - Strabo412 (talk) 11:17, October 26, 2014 (UTC)

1. I would love to see how the whole scales falling from eyes thing in other works besides the Bible........ (seriously you look up scales falling from eyes Acts 9:18 comes up first)
2. And 3) And yet you were the one who put the religious reference in Bridge to the Turnabout... in the pop culture section no less.Franzyfan1998 (talk) 15:01, October 26, 2014 (UTC)

And I would love the scales to fall from your eyes, so I'll oblige! The phrase "the scales fall from someone's eyes" is in both the Oxford and Cambridge English dictionaries. If you'd like to see the phrase being used in a non-biblical sense, then simply search for "scales fall from eyes -bible" (although you may have to go through a few results that are just definitions first). I honestly think the phrase by this point is no longer directly tied to the bible anymore than "bated breath", "break the ice", "cold comfort", "for goodness' sake", "laughing stock", "send packing", or "what's done is done" are to Shakespeare.

However, upon looking again at the root of all evil bit, Athena's quote is actually a direct lift, so I think it can probably stay. Although I think both it and the one in Bridge (which, incidentally, I didn't add (although I will admit to moving it to pop culture due to not being sure where to put it)) might be better suited to the "Notes" section instead. What do you think? - Strabo412 (talk) 16:07, October 26, 2014 (UTC)

1) Well I'm glad we agree on the Money is the root of all evil

2) Look it's not like the saying "scales falling from one's eyes" is just a random phrase in the Bible. It was a specific event! And frankly part of story that changed Church History (but that's a whole nother rant) Besides "scales falling from one's eyes" is not as intertwined in culture as "break the ice is."

2b) the scales fall from someone's eyes
Someone is no longer deceived:

"the scales had fallen from her eyes and she saw clearly what perhaps she should have been aware of earlier"
[with biblical reference to Acts 9:18]

-Oxford dictionaryFranzyfan1998 (talk) 17:57, October 26, 2014 (UTC)

There are plenty of idioms that are believed to have originated from specific events that have then been integrated into the English language with no generally thought to their origins. An example would be "turn a blind eye", which is believed to have come from Admiral Nelson deliberately raising his telescope to his blind eye to prevent him seeing a retreat signal. I'm not quite sure what you're getting at with 2b, as there it's giving an example of the phrase being used in a sentence and then noting where the phrase originates from. Have you never heard it being used outside of a biblical context before? Because it was actually a fair while until I learnt where it came from.

How notable is notable? When is a reference a reference? - Strabo412 (talk) 18:27, October 26, 2014 (UTC)

Have I ever heard scales falling from eyes outside of Biblical context? Answer: No. And I will admit it took to the third viewing of that scene to get the Biblical Reference but you can't expect me to get every single one the first time.

But that's side tracking. At least where I come from that phrase is harly to never used. I only heard it in the Bible. And even so if you really think about it thw way Le'Belle was acting also helps in the reference. It's not like he's simply saying "I hope those scales fall from your eyes" when Apollo suggests that Le'Belle was the one who moved the blackmail letter. He spayed him with cologne! Now I know that Paul was baptized after the scales fell from his eyes, but still there are paralles that can go deeper than a simple line.

Now let me be perfectly clear. It's not like I'm thinking Dual Destinies is a retelling of the New Testement because I'm not. I am simply stating that it seems like a reference and frankly I think you're going on defense beacuse it's not pop culture it's sacred text. Which it is and it is a sensitive subject. I'm simply stating that it is most likley referencing Acts 9:18.Franzyfan1998 (talk) 20:09, October 26, 2014 (UTC)

I wouldn't describe myself as being defensive at all. In fact, I would describe my language as being fairly neutral. I'm simply pointing out that, unlike the other two previously-mentioned scriptural references, the phrase is less a paraphrase of well-known quotes and more an idiom that is used widely enough to warrant it having its own entry in dictionaries. - Strabo412 (talk) 20:26, October 26, 2014 (UTC)

Look it may be an idiom today but again not as big of saying as "break the ice" and for "goodness sake." Those phrases are in everyday culture and have become part of society, to the point where they can hold their own. "Scales falling from eyes" however is still most famously said in Acts.

Frankly if your so against it would it make you happier if we said "it could be of reference to" because that's what we do with our referencesFranzyfan1998 (talk) 21:19, October 26, 2014 (UTC)